tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post5785161112236752638..comments2023-10-17T08:35:27.492-07:00Comments on Ixobelle (archived): Pattern Recognition in Humans (...with applications in MMOs)Richhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01024497755617725448noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-67180331892959044712009-09-17T19:11:06.889-07:002009-09-17T19:11:06.889-07:00Hey! Just wanted to let you know this was a fascin...Hey! Just wanted to let you know this was a fascinating read! I like the baseball metaphor and agree in general with most everything you said.<br /><br />I have a problem in WoW with enjoying things with people I don't know over the internet. The unfamiliarity I feel when joining an instance group kills a lot of the enjoyment of teh game. I don't feel a sense of community with a majority of the players I group with- and I struggle with joining a guild that will raid for good gear and wanting to be free to not play whenever I want.<br /><br />But those are separate issues. I agree that a little bit of randomness would keep things a little more engaging by shifting and mixing the patterns we use to defeat a boss, but where your post really resonated with me was with the slowing down- or I think you used lengthening, but I like slower also ;) of combat.<br /><br />I don't like raid bosses with my mage (2-2-2 with interspersed 1's while keeping my scorch debuff and living bomb up is not that exciting) because of how 1-dimensional the class is, but I definitely miss the long fights in EQ- especially when I can't get a frostfire bolt off 'cause the mobs just die too darn quick -_-<br /><br />For me it's not just the patterns of the mobs that are boring (I still fondly remember EQ and wish that an original EQ server would pop up so I could play the same game I did so many years ago.) but the way you fight. It's part of my problem with min/maxing- but I often feel that in WoW you have no options. If you are a warrior tanking then you MUST follow the right pattern or else you will fail and the group will wipe.<br /><br />Tesh: "Speaking of pattern recognition, I'd like to see a heuristic AI that learns player actions by picking out behavior patterns... and then takes advantage of human patterns."<br /><br />Sword of the Stars, my current love (it's a Turn-based/Real-time mix of space exploration (I think it's called a 5-X game)) has a fairly good AI system where it adapts to the types of technologies you equip your ships with. I, too, would enjoy seeing a responsive boss that counters your strategy after you find and exploit a weakness. The biggest problem would be making sure that the new weakness would not be predictable or making sure that the boss doesn't adapt so fast that the players can't keep up.JediOfTheShirenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-39784726972720491162009-09-16T12:19:45.578-07:002009-09-16T12:19:45.578-07:00It's really interesting that you bring up anal...It's really interesting that you bring up analogy of baseball. I DK if you are aware of it or not but there has been a great deal of research regarding pattern recognition among professional baseball players when they bat.<br /><br />It seems that top hitters scan the field of view and look for patterns in a different way than poor hitters do. Poor hitters will scan one quadrant of the strike zone several times before they move on to the next quadrant. Top hitters scan the four quadrants in very rapid secession, almost as if scanning in a circle.<br /><br />They theorize that this different approach allows top hitters a few extra milliseconds to detect the know pattern of the pitch and allows them to time their swing better.<br /><br />Put another way, the answer to the question of what make a top hitter best is not that they have quicker physical reflexes but that their minds have more efficient pattern recognition process.DeftyJameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11789593033625206881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-59215489771879986712009-09-16T11:39:56.975-07:002009-09-16T11:39:56.975-07:00Speaking of pattern recognition, I'd like to s...Speaking of pattern recognition, I'd like to see a heuristic AI that learns player actions by picking out behavior patterns... and then takes advantage of human patterns.<br /><br />I'm reminded of Punch-Out!, which is all about pattern recognition and timing. It's an OK game, but I'd have liked an alternate track in the game where boxers can be "trained" to see how you fight, then change their tactics accordingly. (A savvy human player could always take advantage of that, too. Train the AI to expect "left, right, jab" by repeating it a few times, then blast the crud out of it with a "left, right, hook" when it gets the pattern and starts reacting to it. It's almost an exercise in swapping patterns, then, and figuring out when to break the pattern is where the tactics and strategy come in.<br /><br />I'm also reminded of Mike Darga's article on AI:<br /><br /><a href="http://mikedarga.blogspot.com/2009/09/hierarchy-of-awareness.html" rel="nofollow">Hierarchy of Awareness</a>Teshhttp://tishtoshtesh.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-72009519367740349992009-09-16T08:31:06.522-07:002009-09-16T08:31:06.522-07:00Have fun storming the castle!
I recently applied t...Have fun storming the castle!<br />I recently applied to a couple of general positions, for the umpteenth time. And I'm still down for that knife fight to the death for a position - though with your raid dungeon portflio I'm afraid you've got me beat before we start.<br /><br />I live just a few miles from Blizzard's campus in Irvine, have driven by it's unassuming yet pearly gates many times with a lustful gleam in my eye.<br />If you need a place to crash, or a carpool partner, hit me up.<br />There is a guard shack at the entrance - dunno how that'll affect the whole storming thing. But lately I've had it in mind to do the storming thing as well. Rumor has it a young man dressed as a paladin and paraded around the foyer demanding a job, and was gifted with one for his trouble. Who knows, maybe creativity and that kind of heart will win over the evil HR demon that guards the personnel roster.<br />Let us know how it goes - or shoot me an email when you plan on heading down if you want some company.<br />Best of luck, in any case. Fight the good fight for nerds around the globe!Ulfbludhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01993988375550094335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-72139913337769350482009-09-09T15:00:53.491-07:002009-09-09T15:00:53.491-07:00very well-written post. it's poetic and artsy ...very well-written post. it's poetic and artsy in a totally manly way.<br /><br />I agree there's something special in both perfect pitch and colliding outfielders.<br /><br />good luck storming the front gates.Jonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14750329810568222503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-64496719771068768772009-09-09T07:55:17.691-07:002009-09-09T07:55:17.691-07:00Naked Man rules.
I simply cannot imagine a world...Naked Man rules. <br /><br />I simply cannot imagine a world without pattern recognition. Nor a world of warcraft for that matter. Those very first world kills wouldn't be possible without identifying a pattern in the boss' behavior. As you said, unfortunately, there's not enough of that. Like you, i don't mind going into a raid and knowing what i'm up against, and knowing the tactics and all. But the real rush is being put against stuff you don't know much about.<br /><br />Guess that's why at the moment i'm finding a web based card trading game more intense than WoW. Although i can force my opponent to play a certain card, most of the time it's that feeling of insecurity mixed with determination. And when I outplay my opponent the feeling i get is more intense than any boss kill in the last 6 months. <br /><br />See, in WoW, everything became predictable. PvE ? Jump on youtube and search the HM Hodir kill video, watch it 2 times, and then you're ready to go. PvP ? It's beyond predictable, it's a bore. If i do this, he'll do that, then i'll counter with this and he'll counter with that - essentially, it's a gear check, no more, no less. Gone are the times of finesse, when someone would use a skill the way no one used it before (like the rogue that first used imp. gouge + restealth for example).<br /><br />And again you are right, it's idiots that make WoW exciting. One may know what he's gonna do and what the boss is gonna do, but he won't be certain about that new guy in the raid.. especially now, when PUGs are the rule. But here comes another kick in the nuts.<br /><br />Let me give you an example. I try to be original. My tanking spec wasn't copied from elitistjerks forum, it was something that i made myself. Sure, tanking as a warrior has a fixed pattern, as in, the base spec for any tank should be 5/0/51 or something like that. The other talent points i see as a matter of taste, what one does with them. Me, i choose to sink more talent points into prot and get some goodies like gag order and safeguard. You won't believe the shit i got from PUGs because i don't have the standard deep wounds spec that's on EJ. <br /><br />So while i try to explain an idiot that i need safeguard to save his sorry ass because he's dps-ing the unmarked mob, he tells me i'm a noob and i should spec deep wounds cause i don't do enough threat.<br /><br />So basically what i'm trying to say is, having originality and idiots in the same cup isn't easy, because they don't quite mix. Pattern recognition works here well, i can smell an idiot that thinks he's the shit from the first two sentences that he types, and usually i just leave the group. But the thing is, you can be original only when you're in a like-minded community - friends or guildies, because when you're around idiots they will make you spew hatred from every orifice and pore. <br /><br />Good article, Iso.Kensaihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12968956418513155396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-77048938278477969952009-09-08T18:36:26.022-07:002009-09-08T18:36:26.022-07:00We can get down?We can get down?Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02229215092174844683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-9011870005290460972009-09-08T09:41:28.740-07:002009-09-08T09:41:28.740-07:00@geoffrey: I'm storming the front gate, who sa...@geoffrey: I'm storming the front gate, who said anything about an interview?<br /><br />;)Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01024497755617725448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-43666519633838489502009-09-08T09:30:03.724-07:002009-09-08T09:30:03.724-07:00Nice food for thought.
Both of those states are ...Nice food for thought.<br /><br /><br />Both of those states are the best moments in WoW. It's great when the last few people alive manage to squeak a win out of a wipe (or my favorite, when our MT disconnected during a particularly hard achievement and we still got it), and it's also exhilerating to be "in the zone", executing perfectly and attuned to the action, knowing that this time you're going to finally win the fight, all the while aware of just how fragile the potential of victory is. It's this bizzare mix of tranquility in the midst of battle while still being clearly aware of what could be about to heartbreakingly go wrong.<br /><br /><br />Seems to me like the "skin of our teeth" excitement is largely a function of difficulty compared to the practice and coordination of your group. The most memorable of them for me were with my guild taking on hard modes, while I've also seen incredible feats of M&S pug groups narrowly dropping Noth (or the infamous stories of 50-minute 4-man Heigan kills while the 6 dead raid members cheer over vent). You just have to play with M&S to find that type of excitement in the easy content. That's why I'm glad there is such a diverse range of difficulty levels to the content in the current wow endgame: everybody can experience those moments, regardless of how they build their group or how much they choose to invest in their performance.<br /><br />Also, I agree that the repetition currently inherent in the genre is not necessarily a bad thing. There's definitely something pleasurable about it, especially in moderation. There's room for something repetitive, and something more content-oriented.Hatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03615033343005638291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-24192247854242799332009-09-08T08:02:57.909-07:002009-09-08T08:02:57.909-07:00Good luck at Irvine. What day is your interview?Good luck at Irvine. What day is your interview?Geoffreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-27909667574605410842009-09-08T07:46:54.841-07:002009-09-08T07:46:54.841-07:00Re: the baseball analogy (is it an analogy? I'...Re: the baseball analogy (is it an analogy? I'm never really sure about that.) I think a hitless game would actually be pretty exciting to watch, once you became aware that the pitcher was on a roll.<br /><br />If it's your man throwing the potentially perfect game you're on the edge of your seat with every pitch until the ball slaps into the catcher's glove, only to clench up again when the pitcher starts his wind-up, while if he's shutting down your team then you're praying for a hit just to deny him the perfect game.<br /><br />I would liken that to watching a bowler bowl a 300 game. Every frame must be bowled perfectly, just as every pitch thrown must beat the batter. Mess up just once, miss the strike or allow a hit, and there goes your perfect game. Your team might still win the game, but you allowed a hit, you let a runner get to first base; for several innings you were throwing a perfect game and you were daring to dream that today was the day...then it slipped through your fingers with one, single hit.<br /><br />After that it might get boring ;)Cap'n Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267651027289124037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7563653272708826682.post-16981122015439502002009-09-08T02:00:30.774-07:002009-09-08T02:00:30.774-07:00I agree! I think the entertainment that the M&...I agree! I think the entertainment that the M&S bring into the game is highly underrated.<br /><br />However, there is a certain beauty in the perfect execution as well, provided that the encounter still is challenging enough and require everyone to be on their toes.<br /><br />The top moment of my last raid was such a thing: we managed to nail the Faction Champions with every single raid member alive in the end! That encounter is certainly unpredictable, it doesn't have the patterns that normal raid bosses have. And we all had to stay alert, flexible, every single second. And when everyone does this and no one messes up, there, it gives a certain flavour of satisfaction.<br /><br />those different approaches aren't necessarily excluding each other. There's a time for everything.Larísahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05769822260333419777noreply@blogger.com