Saturday, August 22, 2009

Cross Server LFG

As seen here.

- This will let you PUG 5-man instances and search for groups through multiple servers.
- It will come with its own reward systems. If you're the leader of a PUG and complete the dungeon succesfully you will be rewarded.
- It should be out for patch 3.3.0.

Let's just jump on in, shall we? This is a HORRIBLE idea.

I'm going to keep this brief, but let's just start a list and see how far we get.

The good:

1) There will be a larger pool to pull from in LFG.

The bad:

1) The problem isn't finding bodies, it's finding the proper balance for a run. Having a zillion druids, paladins, priests, and shamans that refuse to heal in LFG won't get you any closer to teh loots. Likewise for 7 zillion DPS warriors, DKs, palys and druids. This isn't the issue. The issue is that no one wants to fill roles that require anything resembling responsibility. I'm not going to qualify that 'responsibility' statement, as it's ground I've covered before. People want to DPS because it's easy (not simple, just non-commital). There will now be 700 little sword icons in LFG, but the lack of little PLUS or SHIELD icons will stay the same. Multiply any large number by zero and the result is still zero.

2) Free reign to be a jackass. Like, an express written invitation from mommy to be a douchebag. PUGs are already pretty bad. People that don't know each other past this run will shit on you at the drop of a hat. People that don't know you, and are on different servers? Hmmm... let's zone into a BG and try getting people to cooperate. Yeah...

3) Replace 'douchebag' above with 'ninja' and I think my water just broke. Master looting will be STANDARD on every run, and if you aren't the leader, good luck having ANYTHING given to you if the ML can use it for offspec. Cross server forum bitching about ninjas? Welcome to 3.3 I really need to go on?


Luciola said...

I love this idea. Not for the fact that I can pull scrubs from other servers to assist me in smashing my face against mobs. Rather, I may be able to drag good friends and competent players who I know and love from other servers to do five-man content quickly and enjoyably. Perhaps it will mean better groups for people who have friends all over the internets.

Anonymous said...

I'm not really thrilled abotu this idea. I wonder if it means there will be cross-server chat channels and whispers too, because surely it'd be good to at least ask the druid guy if he's OK with healing.

Also the potential for cross server ninjas is high.

Larísa said...

There are pro's and cons of it. It depends so much on what your objective of doing that instance is. Sometimes you don't give a crap about loot as long as you get your triumph emblems, for instance.
But there's surely a lot more to say about this. I guess it will end up in a blog post eventually. Soooo many things to sort out in my head right not... don't know where to start :)

Maniac said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Maniac said...

I disagree with you Ixo, I think this is a great idea, I don't know why they didn't do it earlier. The number of tanks and healers in any one group of people is a percentage, a low percentage, so by giving a greater pool to choose from there will, by default, be more healers and tanks in the pool. I don't think the PUG/idiots/ninjas issue will be any different to picking up a PUG on your own realm, A PUG's a PUG's a PUG.

Anonymous said...

But maniac, you also multiply the DPS, so if you are a DPS, there is that many more DPS to compete with to get into a group. Your argument makes no sense. The ratios will stay the same.

Rich said...

i think my main issue was what I said about not caring...

most people (given the tired but true internet dickwad theory) will 'be good' to their guild, 'behave' in a server run which interests them, and 'generally act like an ass' where nothing is at stake. playing with a bunch of people from another server leaves NOTHING at stake, as you will never see them again (basically). It depends on the pool from which LFG is pulled... the entire population of wow? then yes, you will never see them again. Your battlegroup? look at WSG. PREMADES excel. PUGs tend to be AFK or farming kills in the center of the map, while one person is shouting in chat about how to play, and generally being ignored and/or ridiculed for having the audacity to care.

Kyir said...

Pretty terrible idea.

Though I don't know why anyone pugs anything anymore.

Khatib said...

And so Blizzard continues to move the game in the direction of pixels (loot/achievements) > community and player relations.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I thought they'd already beat that horse sufficiently and it couldn't get any worse.

I continue to fear for the genre of MMOs over the next 5-10 years when there are 8-12 million WoW players out there who think this is the proper way for an MMO to operate and who don't know how much incredibly more interesting, immersive, and outright awesome a truly persistent world with an actual community can be to play in. But now you've got all these people new to the genre who will shout down every single new game and beta because you can't fill a PUG in two minutes and "needing a group with people is boring." and whatever else.

Jeremy said...

Ixo's pretty spot on; my gripe really isn't about the Cross Server thing but rather the swords v. other roles. I decided to move on to a Death Knight in WotLK after years of maging. I don't mind tanking heroics -- in fact, I spend 90% of my time in-game tanking, now, even though I am a DPSer at heart -- but seeing the legions of paladins, warriors, and DKs who queue up just to DPS depresses the hell out of me. I will NEVER get a Banner of Victory or any of the ArP i213 gear from heroic TotC because if I PUG it I am guaranteed to run with 3 other plate who will bitch and moan if I am allowed to roll on DPS gear.

I only log in now to raid. I logged in today, did the cooking daily, and that alone was enough -- I am truly bored of the game.

Tobold said...

I used game theory in a post about raiding today to show how leeching is the optimal strategy in a PuG, while cooperation is the better strategy in a guild run. So I agree with some of what you say about cross-server PuGs not improving on that. But:

The issue is that no one wants to fill roles that require anything resembling responsibility. I'm not going to qualify that 'responsibility' statement, as it's ground I've covered before. People want to DPS because it's easy (not simple, just non-commital).

I think you are overstating your point here. For example while leveling another alt I noticed that the issue is not responsability, but the simple fact that every class has at least one dps build available, and that this dps build levels much, much faster than a tank or healing build. People are actively discouraged by the game to take on those roles. I'm sure if tanks and healers leveled faster, and did daily quests faster, and did much better in PvP than dps, you'd see a lot more tanks and healers, and a lot less dps. It's a problem of class (or rather role) balance, not one of lack of responsibility.

oshin said...

im indifferent to it`, I think on the whole its going to be a benefit to those who like to pug, more of a pool of players to draw on. I doubt the fact people are more anonymous now is going to effect the number of ninjas and dickwads, these people dont seem to care about there own rep on a server anyway.

The real problem with pugs is that people naturally settle down when they have found a group of friends, nobody comes into work/school every day and makes a point of sitting at table with people they dont know, they have there clique. Its the same in WoW, you start playing, you pug a bit or join a guild, makes your friends and then you try to avoid the unwashed masses. What makes it worse is nobody pugs for the social fun aspect, they pug for the loot, which promotes the selfish aspect.

Blizzards attempts at social engineering just arent going to be able to get people to mesh they way they, and we would like, the talk of rewards will probably make it worse maybe even.

The only way I can see it working is by creating simplified zerg fests where people can only farm badges, but dont need a tank or healer, and there is no major challenge. But that sounds as about as fun as watching paint dry (or doing a BG)

River said...

I think it's a horrible idea as well, I can't stand pugging with people from my own server.

Kiryn said...

My fiance and I love pugging, and we're really excited to see what they do with this. As a tank and healer team, it'll be great to have a larger pool of DPS to draw from when we need to replace people for being morons. It has the potential to be great if they handle these obvious issues properly.

It does definitely need to include some way of communicating with these people before entering the instance with them, so that we can get a good feel for which people we want to invite instead of just picking DPS at random from a list and hoping we get good ones.

I'm really hoping that, alongside the "rewards for being leader" thing, there will be other rewards for completing the instance as a group, some kind of karma system, so that you can have some idea of how successful that person has been in their previous groups. If someone is being an asshat, you can just boot them, deprive them of that reward, and find someone else.

Pierre said...

wow! this might actually make me want to come back to the game!

I've been crying like a sniffling noob on the Suggestion forums about this since the cross-realm battlegrounds started.

good for you blizz.

DeftyJames said...

I think the primary reason Blizzard is doing this is exactly and precisely what Luciola said in the first comment. It's primary a retention tool; I mean the whole point of is to get people to identify not with a game but with a brand. That's what going on here.

I think the flaw in your argument is that you seem to think the goal of this move is to make PUGs better, and that's not the point of it at all. It's to get people to stick around by being able to play with a wider circle of friends.

*vlad* said...

Why don't they fix what really needs to be fixed - the useless LFG tool, and bring back a server wide LFG channel that does not require you to sign up to instances/raids you don't really want to go to, just so you can keep the channel open?

This is one of the things that is definitely worse than it was in Vanilla.

...and yes, if there are 5% healers and 5% tanks out there, then it doesn't matter how many servers you link up, there will still only be 5% tanks and 5% healers.

Unknown said...

I remember an HDTK PuG I was in some months ago. The rogue kept walking into rooms, pulling things, then using tricks of the trade on me. This the group to call me a douche, but a huge repair bill because I kept dying not only because of this, but also because after the first tricks the healer refused to heal me saying that I was a ninja pulling dick.

Pike said...

Seeing as I have this stubborn tendency to level things as healy and/or prot, I'm kinda looking forward to being snapped up even quicker >.> /cough

Anonymous said...

Why would you take a dps from another server? If dps are a dime a donzen, pug them from your server. At least they wouldn't be totally disconnected with any repercussions.

Why does the leader get extra rewards? The person that gets to control the loot options gets extra loot for it? I see the possibility of enchanters needing on loot just to DE it. I feel if you are willing to put up with randoms from another server, EVERYONE should get a little extra.

Also, about ninjas.... since that patch where you can trade items for 2 hours after they drop... I have heard several stories of a group of people getting into a pug, just so they could all need on the roll and give it to whoever they feel needs it.