Sunday, January 4, 2009

Design a Raid Encounter

Something I originally intended this blog to be was a compilation of 'big ideas' I had for the MMO genre in general. I felt like new MMOs that were coming out were following certain formulas for the sake of "that's how it's done" instead of spending he time and energy to see how it could be done differently. I've covered Questing (including player offered quests), Tradeskills (with a separate entry for the actual interfaces), Combat, and many entries just touch on various aspects. While I think about living in Japan, and 'what I really want to do with my life', I can't imagine I'll be teaching English much longer. I'd like to actually get involved in the gaming industry, but my programing skillz aren't very leet. I think I'm a pretty creative person (who thinks they're boing, right?), and someone needs to be the guy that sits down and just thinks about crap, right? Obviously that wouldn't be the all encompassing job description, but many of the lead designers for WoW were just uber EQ nerds that got recruited by Blizz to Maek Teh MMO.

UPDATE: The 'Final Version' of my encounter has its own entry HERE. It changed through feedback from the comments on this entry, and figured I should consolidate it all in a clean new entry, for those who are more interested in the final product that the process itself.

Tigole is a famous example. Jeffrey Kaplan, a.k.a "Tigole Bitties" is the lead raid designer for WoW. He took over leadership of Legacy of Steel, a famous EQ1 raiding guild, after Rob Pardo (of who you may have heard of, as well) stepped down. Here's the actual post where Tigole describes how he's being brought on to help design WoW (in the meantime, there's a whole world of NPC's that need to learn the words "cacksugger" and "mo faka" and the like. . .although something tells me I'm already in trouble with the boss). Reading the archives of the LoS site are a unique insight to the single most influential person in WoW's dungeon and quest development team. Obviously he doesn't just sit down and decide how everything is going to go, but after banging his head against so many poorly designed encounters in EQ, he got a feeling for 'what works' and 'what doesn't'. Sound familiar? About every single person who plays an MMO can sit down after a boss fight and say why it was (or wasn't) fun, but how many of you can actually sit down and DESIGN an encounter that would be?

It doesn't have to be terribly complicated. I think the initial problem is that people immediately WANT to make it some huge event where you need to push levers or everyone needs to be involved in something extravagant to make it enjoyable. Let's take a look at a few (varied) examples.

Gruul: The pull before Gruul (High King) is much more complicated than the Gruul fight itself. I think they intentionally made it so a "stupid" raid can't get to the "stupid" fight and get the shinies. The High King pull is pretty technical, and requires about 8 things to be happening all at once in order to get it right, but we aren't focusing on that, we're looking at Gruul himself.

He's basically a big truck that hits really hard, and gets bigger the longer you take to kill him. That alone is one mechanic. The grows. If your DPS isn't fast enough, it eventually becomes untankable. This is called the soft enrage, the alternative being a hard engrage like Gluth or something, where after X minutes the boss just hits for 20 billion on plate and you failed. After Gruul 'enrages' you still have some time if it's really close. Shield Wall, Last Stand, or a few lucky trinket procs can buy you a few more seconds.

Crap falls from the ceiling during the fight. This keeps it so people don't get tunnel vision and just focus on the action bar GCDs. They also need to be aware of their immediate surroundings, and make sure they aren't dying to crap falling on them. He also has the knockback, followed by the shatter. People get punted in random directions, and are hit with a slowing effect. Eventually they can't move anymore, and if they're too close to one another, they take a bunch of damage and possibly kill one another. This puts strain on the heals as they need to bring everyone back up (tanks are the main priority) before it happens again. This spreads heals around, and gives people jobs. MT heals, spot heals, and AoE heals all play an important role.

Finally there's the hateful strike to secondary threat. He hits the OT every X seconds.

While many people with Gruul on farm think it's "stupidly easy, and if you die you're a retard", there's actually a lot to consider during the encounter.

Tanks - Need to be geared enough to live long enough to kill him. It's a gear check for both the MT and OT. They also need to be aware of the crap falling from the ceiling, or they're taking EXTRA damage that they probably can't afford.

DPS - Needs to burn fast enough to get the encounter over with, as well as being aware of the silence effect (which I forgot to mention until now) to maximize their output. Hunters need to keep re-directing threat to the OT, other DPS needs to make sure they never rise above #3 on the threat table.

Heals - Avoid the silence. Maximize HoTs or big heals immediately after a shatter to keep the tanks up, don't be silenced if you can avoid it. Don't get tunnel vision on the little health bars or you die to crap falling from the ceiling.

In addition, everyone needs to not be brain dead dunces that are capable of reacting quickly after the knock back to avoid the shatter damage from one another.

When taken in full, the encounter is actually pretty complicated, and that's an easy one, complexity-wise.

Taking something like Magtheridon in contrast (which I'm not going to type out in full detail), where you have five people clicking cubes, Infernals being banished, crap falling from the ceiling, and three distinct phases, is a huge variation in gameplay. Some little bosses in SFK like Fenrus are tank and spank, but that's extremely rare these days. Even Patchwerk, a traditional tank and spank, has specific restrictions in place (melee needs to jump in and out of the slime river to minimize HEALTH, not THREAT, and heals can't use any AoE heals for fear of getting someone besides the tanks one shotted).

Other encounters like Moroes, Wizard of Oz, High King, Four Horsemen, and others, use the tactic of dealing with many unique adds simultaneously. It breaks the one big raid into many little groups, where players need to fill specific roles... Sartharion has some people going through the portals to kill the adds, while others stay behind to tank the drakes. Leotheras the Blind in SSC has a warlock tank, priests tank Rasuvious using mind control. Fights are mixed up and players are kept from falling into certain grooves or ruts to make the game fun.

With all of that in mind, can you design an encounter?

With nothing in mind beforehand, here's me, sitting on my laptop in the teacher's lounge in Yorishima Sho Gakkou, giving it a try:

(time passes)



It's hard to try and think of something new... the polarity-shift things with the boss in mechanar (which was lifted from Thaddeus in Naxx) is an awesome mechanic that I wouldn't have thought of on my own. The Kiting of Razorgore adds in BWL while someone MCs the dragon to kill the eggs... Razorgor is another good example of a basic mechanic (kiting) taken to another level. Adds spawn, but you kill the mages, while kiting the 'regular' ones. For each mage that dies, another add will spawn. Maybe it's another mage, maybe it's a grunt. If it's a grunt, add it to the kite, if it's a mage kill it and see what comes out next... the dragonkin are immune to slowing (piercing howl, totems), while the orcs aren't, that ALONE adds another dimension to the kiting, and makes for a more interesting fight. The layout of the room plays a role in many fights as well (Heigan, Shade of Aran, Chromaggus, don't even get me started on the Suppression Room/Broodlord in BWL)

Okay, here's my encounter:

The setting is a large planetarium type room. High, domed ceiling with stars and constellations on it. On the far side of the room sits the boss. He's a regular sized human (maybe a bit bigger for visibility during he fight). He wears dark clothing with a fancy red cape. That's not terribly original, but I'm not weaving a huge lore here, I'm desgining the fight. Gears, machinery, and test tube type stuff (think: alchemy lab style) are littered around the room. The center of the room is dominated by a large wheel device that turns parallel to the ground with 5 poles. Dunno what they're called, one of these things:

There's a slit in the ceiling, like a telescope observatory has:

There's also a large disk seen on the far side of the encounter, above the guy's throne:

The boss himself is Baron Von Lupus, an honest to god Vampire Werewolf! This works to our advantage, since vampires and werewolves are natural enemies (naturally!). He basically has two distinct forms, and they both play off one another.

In vampire form he summons hordes of bats, and has some lifetap thing going on with the raid, and is weak to sunlight. In werewolf form, he hits harder, has a 'skittish' aggro table, and gains strength from the moon.

The fight begins, and he sets the sundial clock thing above his throne in motion. It begins with daytime, and the room is brightly colored. Sunlight streams in through the slit in the roof, and he begins to lifetap the raid as well as periodically summoning bats that need to be offtanked. Any time a bat is killed, it enrages him, so they need to be 'just handled' for the time being. His 'abilities' at this point are just flavor. One awesome ability would be turning into a bat himself, raising up in the air, and swooping down to bite a random (? ...maybe lowest on the threat table so it's 'aimable' for the raid to select specific members?) raid members thereby turning them into a vampire that need to be offtanked as well. Other various bleeds or whatever are thrown in as needed.

This phase continues with tanks tanking the bats (not the boss, see below), healers spot healing the raid and dealing with the bitten, and DPS burns.

The crank in the middle of the room is 'mannable' by 5 raid members, who can turn the crank which rotates the ceiling. The boss either teleports or flies in bat form to various locations in the room, and the sunlight falling thru the slot in the roof can be aimed using the wheel to weaken him and make him either able to be damaged AT ALL, or just have the damage amplified. I like the idea that he's immune to damage unless he's in the sunlight. He isn't tanked in a traditional sense during this phase, though. He moves around on his own (perhaps flying, because you know... vampire and all).

Phase two begins when the sundial in the far side of the room reaches the night time phase. The lighting in the room is changed dramatically to you don't need to be 'watching the clock' in order to realize what's happening. He transforms into a werewolf, and now the slot in the roof that was damaging him becomes a damage amplifier. He wants to stand in the moonlight that's now streaming thru the roof, so it's best to move him away from it. His initial hatred for vampires gets the best of him at the beginning of this phase, and he goes nutso bonkers on the bats we've been offtanking. Anyone standing near the bats takes huge cleaves, so when you see the room get dark, GTFAway from teh Bats, yo. After the bats are dead, a tank picks him up, and DPS continues. Another awesome aspect would be if the 'bitten' members of the raid from phase 1 still generate huge amounts of threat.

ooh! Wait!

Okay! The vampire guy bites them during phase one, and they become vampires, with a new ability action bar, but during daytime phases they aren't in control of themselves, they're under the control of Vampy McVampsalot. They stand by helpless during this phase lolling on vent as they go nuts and one shot priests, etc. But during phase two, they regain control of their (still vampire) selves, and are used to tank the wolf phase, from the massive threat they have. Sweet. Make the bite random then, so you never know who's going to tank? Or make it one of the tanks (who would naturally be lowest threat to the vamp boss since they're busy with the bats, and not tanking him in the traditional sense anyway).

The wolf form cleaves, which becomes a full whirlwind spinning Bladestorm kinda thing if he touches the moonlight, and the vampires from phase 1 are tanking him. The sundial ticks back over, the vampires have to be handled again (they lose control during this phase), and the process repeats.

Let's look at the breakdown:

Day Phase

Tanks = Tanking Bats, possibly getting Vampired
Heals = Bats have bleeds that tick (and stack), the whole raid is being lifedrained
DPS = pew pew (plus operating the crank)

Night Phase

Tanks = Tanking boss (as vampires)
Heals = Focusing big heals on the tank
DPS = pew pew (plus operating the crank)

The night phase is when the majority of damage gets done. The crank can be ignored for the most part, since the boss is actually tankable, or.... hmm.

Perhaps there's one section of the floor where the beam can be moved where it shines 'off the floor'. Like the room isn't a full 360, but instead like 325 degrees, and during the night phase, the beam can be positioned to 'fall off the floor into the gap'. Since the wolf actually runs around on the ground (and doesn't fly) it wouldn't be an issue... I like the idea that the crank isn't completely ignored, it's 'handled' and then out of the picture until day phase rolls back around, freeing up the random DPS that are acting as crank operators.

Also, the day phase imposes a lifedrain on the entire raid (or perhaps a debuff on a few members) that can't be dispelled. Maybe it's active any time he's not in the sun. This way the boss regains some health during this phase. This, coupled with the fact that he's creating more vampires each day phase from your raid members, leads to a situation where it's eventually helpless. You don't have enough tanks to magage the extra vampires in addition to holding the bats, and it's a wipe.

I hate the idea of "after 8 minutes the boss just kills you". I prefer to know it just becomes a winless situation, instead of the boss artificially enraging and hitting you for 3 million damage.

I think this encounter would actually be pretty fun, and could have a few variations thrown in for tuning. If Night becomes too easy, throw in wolf adds for the (non vampire) tanks to pick up. If the raid wide drain life is too hard to heal, tone it down to five members, or ooh! Make it so if you have the debuff, you need to stand in the sunlight that whole phase to negate its effect. That adds more mobility to the encounter as well.

Reading back over this post, it's pretty long. But I basically sat down and just started whacking away. Certain things lead to others, and elements play off each other... like the idea that room wouldn't be a FULL circle, to allow you to park the moonbeam during might. You still have to move it to the gap ASAP during night, and if the boss is between the gap and the beam, he's gonna bladestorm as it passes over him. Or having raid mobility during daytime (negating the debuff by standing in the sunlight as well). These are things that can be tuned and adjusted once you have the basic idea in place.

I leave the end here up to you guys... try and throw a really basic encounter together, and type it up. I'd be curious to see what you guys can come up with. Give it an honest attempt, don't just dismiss it. I know you've complained about certain encounters, we ALL do... how could you make a better one, or how could you tweak an existing one to make it more fun?


David said...

I'd like to see an encounter like voltron where you have 5 mini-bosses individual groups need to handle...then they merge to form the big robot guy and you need to shift to that style of encounter...then they break up into parts again, maybe 5 times over the encounter.

The catch is, everytime the robots break up, players get a debuff where if they stand near the wrong robot, they get -50% healing, dmg, whatever, and when near the correct robot, they get like +10%. This debuff would change each time the robot breaks up. The debuffs applied would be random but evenly distributed.

If you destroy one robot and then the main robot reforms, that piece will be regenerated. Which means you have to coordinate your raid to kill all 5 pieces within about 1 minute of each other. DPSing the main robot will equally deplete all 5 forms HP as a shared pool.

This is for a 25-man raid, I cant think of a 10-man equivalent.

Another aspect for the debuffs would be each time the robot breaks up, parts are scattered over the floor, and players have 30 seconds to grab a part matching which one they want to fight, but picking up the same type more than once in the encounter will cause an instant death.

By the way, I love how you listed your characters on the right of your blog. Very classy, I must say. The mark of a gentleman and a scholar.

Rich said...

yes, your own toon list inspired me ;)

Voltron would be cool, kinda similar to the polarity shifts, but 5 debuffs instead of 2 (yellow, blue, green, pink, red).

The weird thing would be if you had 5 healers stuck on destroying the one piece, but it's similar to having the resto druid that can't kill this shadow double in Loetheras in SSC ;)

Anonymous said...

I actually am very fond of the fight you came up with. Figure I'd add in that maybe I'd have the werewolf bite people as well, so that they act similar to the tanks being damaged in Vampire (Day) Mode, make it so they have to tank or kill the bats.

Just to add some symmetry to the fight.

Cronoo said...

I really like the idea, and could picture how the fight would play out as it was being described..just one question. How would the daytime boss be limited to how many vampires he could create per-phase? If he creates multiple vampires per-day-phase it could cause a lot of problems with which characters would become it. The way it's described it seems to me like you wanted more than one.

Rich said...

i think one per day phase?

at first i was thinking it could be random whether is started at day or night, but given that you use the vampires to tank the wolf, it would need to begin on a day cycle.

I also was thinking about offsetting the fact that you lose raid members effectively during the day phase. I think it would be cool if they served to 'help' the night phase. the obvious is that they're tanking the wolf. the secondary effect could be that the wolf cleaves, and that the damage is split between anyone caught in it (similar to the bear boss in zul aman).

becoming a vampire would give you a larger health pool, and as you had more vampires created from your raid, they could effectively multitank him in the night phase.

this would have a few interesting side effects. The boss becomes "easier" to tank as the fight goes on... the night phase in general is when you burn the hardest with DPS, and having the damage split among more tanks means less worrying about them going down.

This is a direct counter to the day phase, when having more vampires is a bad thing (since they run berserk, and need to be handled).

on the other hand, most fights get HARDER as they go on, not easier, so maybe ...


okay, here's an idea (but it's gonna be pretty convoluted).

You KNOW you need a vampire alive to tank phase two, so you INTENTIONALLY create one by killing a bat. this enrages the boss, and he bites a raid member. hooray, there's your tank. If you screw up and kill 2, you're shooting yourself in the foot since you only need one... you can go ahead and actually kill off the second vampire just to get it out of your hair...

ehh.. but you'd NEED two eventually anyway, so why would you... unless they only last ONE night phase, then they die when the sun comes up again.

that actually sounds pretty cool. phase one, you sacrifice one raid member to be your phase two tank. phase '3' (the second day cycle), your first vampire dies, and you need to sacrifice TWO MORE members, because the wolf boss hits twice as hard in phase 4 (2nd night). phase 5 has those two dying, and you need THREE now to survive the cleaves.

by phase 6, you're down 6 raid members that you killed off yourself, in addition to any that died n thier own. it becomes a vicious cycle to have to pull members of your own raid to keep the boss tankable.

10 man variation can use one tank for the first two nights, 2 for the next two, which would only leave four members at phase 9 (gg, wipe it out).

as for the crank in the center of the room, maybe you could use anywhere from 1 to 5 people to turn it, but it spins slower with fewer... maybe the 10 man variation just has three handles instead of 5.

Rich said...

and the thought did occur to me to have people becoming werewolves, too... to tank the vampire phase, but i kinda like the idea that 'that phase has no tank'... just the guys handling the bats, and the main focus is keeping the sunlight on him.

i like that the two phases aren't mirror images of each other, the asymmetry of it gives each phase a distinct flavor ;)

Anonymous said...

Any way you have it Ixo, you came up with a really cool idea for a fight, and it does make a lot of sense. You didn't just come up with some fantasy scenario of a fanboy, you have something with a bit of polish could come out to be a really fun and rewarding fight.

Now the question is, how do you copyright it and send it off to a game company? ;-)

Shawno said...

Want different Raids? Then stop thinking in terms of "bosses".

A Raid could be completed in various other ways, allowing you to get the shinies when all is finished. ie. hordes of angry denizens, crossing pits of obstacles like fire or lava, using specific buffs or talents or (omg!) crafting certain items on the way to unlock specific things, etc.

Heck, there doesn't even need to be combat! I would love to see an instance that all the uber-types couldn't do because their cooking skill wasn't high enough, lol. But it could still be challenging if designed with group effort, planning, and teamwork in mind.

Cronoo said...

The idea of the lesser vampires dying off at each day phase is brilliant but it removes the out of control vampires attacking the raid aspect, which could make that part of the fight a lot easier. A way it could be balanced is when the lesser vampires die it heals the boss for a % or gives him some sort of buff or something.
orrr.. idea my friend had for a boss fight comes to mind and could add an interesting twist to this fight.
The idea was for the boss to turn raid members into mirrors of himself, name-tag and all, then splits off into a dozen different clones leaving the raid to attack the fake-bosses, and risk attacking their raid-mates while searching for the real boss.
How this would be integrated into this particular fight would be when it switches from night to day, the raid member vampires turn into the bat adds(computer controlled), and the boss spawns X amount more. When they transform the camera unsticks from the character so they can't relay over vent which bat they are.. When the raid needs to kill another bat for the extra tank on the next night phase it's like playing a roulette, you could kill your own raid member, or the npc bat and wouldn't know until it was night again.
An unlucky raid group could get fucked, so the idea doesn't really seem very practical in my opinion, but I think it would make for an amusing fight.

Anonymous said...

And NO. Not Chess puzzles. Puzzles that somehow never gets old, some kind of puzzle that is randomized. and failing makes a pack spawn or something similar.

Rich said...

The idea of the lesser vampires dying off at each day phase is brilliant but it removes the out of control vampires attacking the raid aspect, which could make that part of the fight a lot easier. A way it could be balanced is when the lesser vampires die it heals the boss for a % or gives him some sort of buff or something.

yeah, i kinda liked the idea that you have to "deal with" those random vamps until night time. I still like the idea that they die at the next day phase (to slowly whittle your raid down), so maybe the bats spawn, and NEED to be immediately killed or they'll just inflict too much stacking bleeds. Like the instant a bat spawns, it needs to be 1) picked up by a tank & 2) Burned the fuck down ASAP before the bleeds get out of hand.

this forces you to "create the random vampires" in your raid that cause havoc for the continuation of your day cycle, rather than wait until 3 seconds before night time, and kill two bats to get you two night-phase tanks.

this would lead to the bats being a "meatier" component. Rather than just being little random adds (like the phoenixes in Alar), that just get put off to the side and ignored, they need to be killed... ah, but that ruins the "wolf goes bonkers on the bats at the beginning of the night phase".


OK! two types of bats. Regular little bats that eat cleaves at the beginning of the night phase, and Uber-Vampire Bats (with special extra damaging attacks) that need to be tanked and killed ASAP. killing ANY type of bat will enrage the boss and force him to create another raid-member-vamp, but it's in the raid's best interest to kill the "bad" bats rather than the little scrub ones.

Anonymous said...

Hey Ixobelle,

I've written up my own raid encounter. Yours sounds kind of interesting too, I like the alternating of day and night phases (except for the thematic weirdness by having a werewolf during the day).

My raid design is here if you care to read it:


Rich said...

noob! the werewolf phase is at night!

the vampire phase is during the day, and direct contact with the sunbeam weakens him. when he wolf comes into direct contact with the moonbeam (at NIGHT) he enrages. ;)

Anonymous said...

I realized my mistake after re-reading it. The only issue I would have with it is that many players don't have a lot of fun when control is taken away from them. We know this from pvp and we know it from other raid encounters. The only type of thing that takes control away from the player is death, and even in the few encounters where the game decides you must die, it still provides you something to up to that point.

Case #1 would be Vaelastrasz and Burning Adrenaline.
Case #2 would be Teron Gorefiend.

With more and more of the raid becoming Vampiric and uncontrollable while under the boss' control, that's more and more of the raid required to stand around doing nothing for extended periods of time. That's not a good thing; what if somebody decides 'since I am uncontrollable right now, I'll just go get a snack' then comes back to see an entire raid wipe? The thing you want least is for any player to be bored and not playing for a significant amount of time.

Fights that force a player dead are ensured to be very short (both Vael and Teron are extremely quick). You'd have to do something similar here or revamp the mechanic so to speak.


Rich said...

...but i think in the same vein, if you could 'aim' the debuff (and 'turning'), then it would allow a certain leeway to the fight. you could turn your least geared player into a tank for the encounter, and at the same time they

A) get to play a crucial role in the fight


B) aren't penalized by not having 8000 epics.

The debuff itself gives you an extended health pool, and set list of skills (so your class wouldn't matter either). Yes, you eventually die, but in many encounters where you are MCed, it's actually kind of fun to watch yourself go nuts as your friends try to reel you in. there's alwaya the inevitable 'well, if i wasn't so bad ass, you could have handled me. sorry for wiping the raid, maybe you guys should suck less next time' on vent afterwards :)

Anonymous said...

There's nothing about making the vampire part mutually exclusive with mind controlling the player. Mind controlling the player is ok in small doses because it happens fairly rarely, and doesn't last very long. The initial novelty might be fun, but it would wear thin pretty easily because you're essentially telling the player 'Hey you have nothing to do for the rest of the phase'.

Rather than make the vampire form mind controlled, I'd do something else like give it a debuff while in the day phase. Maybe the debuff would be something like "The sun! It burns!" and would periodically deal holy damage to the target, and disallow some of the vampire abilities. You could still let the Baron mind control people as a vampire periodically, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that extended mind control leaves players bored and that's not a good design to ever have.

Anonymous said...

I got an idea! make the player vampires loose some health all the time, and give them some kind of ability to drain health from teammembers, wich they have to use to survive the day phase. it would fit in to the vampire theme, and it will allso fuck the raid up if you get too many

Michael Johnson said...

One of the other major issues with Mind-controlling players is if a healer get's MC-ed.

If this is a 10-player raid, with 2 healers, and one get's MC'd, unless the damage is very carefully tuned, it can be an automatic wipe.

This is also an EXTREMELY complicated and therefor difficult raid-encounter to learn. Many, many raids have been stopped by encounters like Gluth (and having too many things to remember

Lastly, this would also be very hard to program. There's a number of unique features in here. If we're talking about a WoW-like game, it would take a large effort to implement and balance it.

I tend to think that Blizzard's raid-designers can dream-up dozens of very unique and fun encounters, but are often held-back by the challenge of implementing and tuning it.

Rich said...

in all, i don't think it's too horribly complicated.

day spahse has you using the crank, tanking bats, and handling the player-vamps.

night has you parking the crank, and nuking.

when I think of an encounter like Vashj or Kael, and ALLLLL of the things happneing at once in those fights, this one seems pretty simple. the crank would probably be the hardest element to program, many of the other elements of the fight already exist in one form or another. Positional nullifing of debuffs, special adds triggering boss effects. it's actually pretty straightforward.

I wouldn;t say it's the last boss of a 25 man, but not a first encunter of a raid either. maybe a 'miniboss', along the lines of curator, or supremus. I may try and take this to the next level, and plan out a whole dungeon using the vampire werewolf frankenstein theme ;)

Anonymous said...

An SFK like instance would fit in to that description, only more creepy. like an merge between SFk and Scholomance.

giff moars arugalz ololls